Padraig O Caoimh (POK) in conversation with Richard Mulcahy (RM) in 1964 (my edits).
POK: John Rooney was in Frongoch camp of course and Boland, a bodymaker too and I think he was working in Cork. He was no relation to the Bolands you and I know. He had the same profession or trade as Rooney. A tall man with reddish hair. He was anti-Griffith too.
RM: Who would be the people in the IRB now in that particular time who would be of that mentality?
POK: Well, I'll tell you who. The bloody ringleader was P.S. O'Hegarty. He came from London to meetings. Dinny McCullough, P.S. O'Hegarty, Bulmer Hobson. A man by the name of Kenny of Galway. He was a blacksmith. From that it started then you see. And that went up to until Mick Collins came along in 1917.
RM: Hold on. We are pre-Rising now. P.S.O'Hegarty wrote for the United Irishman on arms etc., the necessity for political force and that and while he was writing for that was he so much anti-Griffith that he would be prepared to tolerate the tearing down of Rooney's photograph?
POK: Oh undoubtedly! No doubt about it. Oh without a doubt. Oh God yes. Oh undoubtedly!
RM: At that time did you have any connection with Sean O'Hegarty, the brother?
POK: No. I didn't know him. In 1910 he was in Cobh in the post office.
RM: But now, in the meantime while this anti-Griffith racket was going along, you were a member of of the IRB in Dublin.
POK: I was.
RM: And you went to your weekly meetings, your monthly meeting, and am I right in saying that until the Volunteers were formed that it was a monthly roll-call where you paid your shilling before you went to your Gaelic League classes, or to your pub, and it never lasted more than a quarter of an hour,?
POK? Well it would be half an hour , roughly.
RM: And you never got any subjects to discuss, or advice, or argument, or anything and you accepted the political situation for what it was.
POK: The man who came to see us, he was manager of White's, he was a Protestant, he wore a whisker. He was a Wicklow man. Oh what was his name? Sure I knew him well. I don't say he was terribly brainy or anything like that.
RM: Well now, in the meantime then you were still meeting in 41 (York Street?) and you may have gone from the basement upstairs a bit?
RM: Well were you still drilling?
POK: We didn't start drilling I'd say until 1911 or 12. I wouldn't be sure of that now. But certain enough we were drilling in 1912.
to be continued...........